We’re a non-driving family and therefore reliant on public transport, plus my 12yo has had a special interest in trains since he was a toddler. I’m not sure I’ve come across any UK public transport company that has really thought about children beyond providing novelty tickets for under 5s and the occasional activity pack. I wish more stations had play areas, Kings Cross has one but I’ve seen adults without kids using the seating in there and there not being any room for families. My son loves playing city simulation games and always puts a playpark outside the stations!
My daughter is a massive train fan too (she is 8). In the summer hols, she and I are going on the sleeper train from Glasgow to London and she is very excited. The idea of going to sleep in location A and waking in location B seems magical to her. Plus the cabins have bunk beds so they are ahead on points in her head already!
Our 4yr old thankfully loves trains too, but I found it easier to ditch the buggy as early as we could so that accessing them would be easier, even though this severely limited where we could go for a couple of years. I do find that ScotRail has more space on board for buggies and enough trains in service withing Glasgow at least, but it's almost all stair access and there can be big gaps and height differences, which of course excludes those with mobility differences as well!
We have family in Sweden and even without the fancy extras such as play carriages, there is just more space on board, plus step with ramps wheels either side and/or lift access (at least in Stockholm, the town we get off needs better infrastructure - and there's a recent issue of not having staff at stations as ticketing becomes app based). The local buses also have booster seats, and reclining backwards facing seats for children! It's just so much easier to get around. I think parents with pushchairs also travel for free in some cities and towns 😯
Yes, we lived in Scotland until our son was 7 and I would agree there was more space. Where we live now the trains have no space for big luggage as they are seen as commuter trains, but loads of people use them to connect to other trains to go on holiday or get the bus connection to the airport and it’s a real problem.
Exactly! It's mad how cramped some obviously always been busy services are (having to stand in aisles on GWR at any time of day for example). There's been such severe cuts to services to "save money", and to then make those who rightly have more space requirements feel bad about using those services 😮💨
Going to give a shout out to the Avanti staff at Glasgow for my experience last year.
Me, my wife and daughter (7 at the time) were heading down to Preston and then on to Ribby Hall. Sadly, someone in the Lake District took their own life that morning by jumping on the tracks, leading to an indefinite delay.
My daughter was getting really distressed and, by the time we were in a queue of grown ups (She was the only child) for what we thought were rail-replacement coaches, was in tears. One of the Avanti service team came over and knelt down beside her so as to get eye level and asked her what was wrong. My wee one said she was worried she wasn't going to get to her holiday. The Avanti person took us past the rest of the queue ("I am going to help this family and then will be right back with you") and put us in a taxi to Preston. My daughter still talks about the "nice lady" and the time she took a taxi to England to this day!
My children are always complaining that the seats in bus shelters and on station platforms are usually at a height that makes them unusable for children. I don’t think this is deliberate, just a failure to consider all transport users. There are some shelters that have seats at two heights, so it turns out it IS possible to consider small people if the designer puts their mind to it!
Oh my daughter always used to complain about this too when she was younger and less tall! I would have to physically lift her up. So frustrating (those ‘seats’ also seem dreadful for older or disabled people too) x
I'll add to this that although under-5s can travel for free in the UK, you often can't reserve them a seat without paying for a full price child ticket (as if you're expected to have a 4yr old sit on your lap for a 5hr journey should the seat next to you be in use!). And this is sometimes not clear until after you've purchased your tickets!!
Ooh and a tip would be if you often travel by train or are doing a long trip, get a family railcard even if your children are under 5. The saving you get on the adult ticket outweighs having to pay the few pounds for the children’s one(s). And you then get to reserve a seat for the kids too.
Oh my goodness Eloise. I can’t tell you how much airtime I give to this issue for anyone who listens. I think about it so often. Thank you for the template and the campaign as I wasn’t sure where to put my anger about it. Every single time I have travelled on a train in this country as a mother with a baby, or with both my baby and toddler, it has been a complete nightmare, and I’ve been left despairing at just how unjust it feels that not only are trains not set up for children, but they seem to actively discourage their existence on them. Just 2 weeks ago after paying £170 for the privilege of a 3 hour train from Newcastle to London, I had to stand/sit in the busy corridor with my baby in her pram, next to a smelly loo, moving with extreme difficulty everytime someone wanted to get past, because there were no seats for us, and the idea I’d be able to fold away my pram and be able to hold my 9 month old baby alongside my stuff was ridiculous. I felt so angry. People kept waking past me sitting on the floor and asking if I was ok to which I would say, honestly, no I wasn’t, I was pissed off that I had to sit on a dirty floor next with my baby for 3 hours. Every journey I’ve had has been some variation of this. From the conductor who told me angrily my toddler had to be sitting down in her seat at all times because she didn’t want it to be her responsibility if the train came to a stop and the toddler would go flying and be ‘seriously injured’ because didn’t I know how dangerous it was (if it’s that dangerous then why aren’t their dear ears provided?), and that if I couldn’t get her to keep still I probably shouldn’t bring her on a train. The judgment that I would even dare to exist with my young children. Sorry I’m on a rant about it now, but I just can’t believe there seems to be so much contempt towards children travelling on trains in this country!
We’re a non-driving family and therefore reliant on public transport, plus my 12yo has had a special interest in trains since he was a toddler. I’m not sure I’ve come across any UK public transport company that has really thought about children beyond providing novelty tickets for under 5s and the occasional activity pack. I wish more stations had play areas, Kings Cross has one but I’ve seen adults without kids using the seating in there and there not being any room for families. My son loves playing city simulation games and always puts a playpark outside the stations!
My daughter is a massive train fan too (she is 8). In the summer hols, she and I are going on the sleeper train from Glasgow to London and she is very excited. The idea of going to sleep in location A and waking in location B seems magical to her. Plus the cabins have bunk beds so they are ahead on points in her head already!
That sounds so fun Brian! I'd really like to do that with my daughter too.
Our 4yr old thankfully loves trains too, but I found it easier to ditch the buggy as early as we could so that accessing them would be easier, even though this severely limited where we could go for a couple of years. I do find that ScotRail has more space on board for buggies and enough trains in service withing Glasgow at least, but it's almost all stair access and there can be big gaps and height differences, which of course excludes those with mobility differences as well!
We have family in Sweden and even without the fancy extras such as play carriages, there is just more space on board, plus step with ramps wheels either side and/or lift access (at least in Stockholm, the town we get off needs better infrastructure - and there's a recent issue of not having staff at stations as ticketing becomes app based). The local buses also have booster seats, and reclining backwards facing seats for children! It's just so much easier to get around. I think parents with pushchairs also travel for free in some cities and towns 😯
Booster seats on buses! Incredible!
Yes, we lived in Scotland until our son was 7 and I would agree there was more space. Where we live now the trains have no space for big luggage as they are seen as commuter trains, but loads of people use them to connect to other trains to go on holiday or get the bus connection to the airport and it’s a real problem.
Exactly! It's mad how cramped some obviously always been busy services are (having to stand in aisles on GWR at any time of day for example). There's been such severe cuts to services to "save money", and to then make those who rightly have more space requirements feel bad about using those services 😮💨
Going to give a shout out to the Avanti staff at Glasgow for my experience last year.
Me, my wife and daughter (7 at the time) were heading down to Preston and then on to Ribby Hall. Sadly, someone in the Lake District took their own life that morning by jumping on the tracks, leading to an indefinite delay.
My daughter was getting really distressed and, by the time we were in a queue of grown ups (She was the only child) for what we thought were rail-replacement coaches, was in tears. One of the Avanti service team came over and knelt down beside her so as to get eye level and asked her what was wrong. My wee one said she was worried she wasn't going to get to her holiday. The Avanti person took us past the rest of the queue ("I am going to help this family and then will be right back with you") and put us in a taxi to Preston. My daughter still talks about the "nice lady" and the time she took a taxi to England to this day!
Ahh this is such a lovely story! It makes me feel very hopeful 🥹
My children are always complaining that the seats in bus shelters and on station platforms are usually at a height that makes them unusable for children. I don’t think this is deliberate, just a failure to consider all transport users. There are some shelters that have seats at two heights, so it turns out it IS possible to consider small people if the designer puts their mind to it!
Oh my daughter always used to complain about this too when she was younger and less tall! I would have to physically lift her up. So frustrating (those ‘seats’ also seem dreadful for older or disabled people too) x
I'll add to this that although under-5s can travel for free in the UK, you often can't reserve them a seat without paying for a full price child ticket (as if you're expected to have a 4yr old sit on your lap for a 5hr journey should the seat next to you be in use!). And this is sometimes not clear until after you've purchased your tickets!!
Yes! This is such a good point x
Ooh and a tip would be if you often travel by train or are doing a long trip, get a family railcard even if your children are under 5. The saving you get on the adult ticket outweighs having to pay the few pounds for the children’s one(s). And you then get to reserve a seat for the kids too.
Oh my goodness Eloise. I can’t tell you how much airtime I give to this issue for anyone who listens. I think about it so often. Thank you for the template and the campaign as I wasn’t sure where to put my anger about it. Every single time I have travelled on a train in this country as a mother with a baby, or with both my baby and toddler, it has been a complete nightmare, and I’ve been left despairing at just how unjust it feels that not only are trains not set up for children, but they seem to actively discourage their existence on them. Just 2 weeks ago after paying £170 for the privilege of a 3 hour train from Newcastle to London, I had to stand/sit in the busy corridor with my baby in her pram, next to a smelly loo, moving with extreme difficulty everytime someone wanted to get past, because there were no seats for us, and the idea I’d be able to fold away my pram and be able to hold my 9 month old baby alongside my stuff was ridiculous. I felt so angry. People kept waking past me sitting on the floor and asking if I was ok to which I would say, honestly, no I wasn’t, I was pissed off that I had to sit on a dirty floor next with my baby for 3 hours. Every journey I’ve had has been some variation of this. From the conductor who told me angrily my toddler had to be sitting down in her seat at all times because she didn’t want it to be her responsibility if the train came to a stop and the toddler would go flying and be ‘seriously injured’ because didn’t I know how dangerous it was (if it’s that dangerous then why aren’t their dear ears provided?), and that if I couldn’t get her to keep still I probably shouldn’t bring her on a train. The judgment that I would even dare to exist with my young children. Sorry I’m on a rant about it now, but I just can’t believe there seems to be so much contempt towards children travelling on trains in this country!
‘Dear ears’ seatbelts that should say!! * sorry lots of Typos..
£170 for a return but still…